Cally’s hopes were high for an unmedicated birth. She gets thrown a curve ball when her membranes rupture as the first sign of labor. Knowing that an important strategy for a healthy birth is to labor at home for as long as possible, she doesn’t rush to the hospital. When she does go many hours later, she bravely signs an AMA (“against medical advice”) form in order to go back home after learning she’s barely dilated or effaced and baby is still high. When she later goes to the hospital and agrees to be induced, she’s ultimately very happy to have a vaginal birth with shorter-than-average length of induction, epidural for just a couple of hours, and an efficient pushing stage. She also shares some about her experiences with clinical anxiety and strategies to manage it, challenges with breastfeeding, and experiencing tendonitis due to repetitive stress in holding baby.
Resources:
New York Lactation Consultant Association - find a NYC area lactation consultant, look-up for in-network IBCLCs with your insurance plans
Bethpage Lactation - Lactation Consultant, Maria (works with Long Island families)
Induction for due dates (Evidence Based Birth)
Sponsor links:
Free “Pack for Your Best Birth” Packing List (with free mini-course option)
East River Doula Collective (find a doula, attend our free “Meet the Doulas” event)
Birth Matters NYC Childbirth Education Classes (Astoria, Queens and virtual)
*Disclosure: Links on this page to products are affiliate links; I will receive a small commission on any products you purchase at no additional cost to you.
Episode Topics:
Got pregnant right after getting married
Identifying enlarged kidney on baby during pregnancy, caused anxiety
Lots of yoga and working out during pregnancy
Read tons of books, lots of prep
Water broke on Memorial Day at 4:40am as first sign of labor, just wet underwear, not a big gush
Really wanted to avoid unnecessary interventions
Went back to sleep, woke up at around 7am
Stalling, not wanting to go to the hospital
Called OB who was on-call (not hers due to the holiday)
Called doula, said she could stall a bit
Eventually they go to hospital around 6pm
Only ½ cm dilated, -2 station
She wants to go home and they tell her they don’t recommend it so they ask her to sign an AMA (Against Medical Advice)
Feeling a lot of anxiety around signing that and going home, but still glad to be home
Meditating, barely sleeping, contractions not starting
Arriving at hospital around 10am next morning
PA really rude to her
They start induction around 2pm with Cytotec (cervical ripener)
Didn’t want foley due to risk of infection
Not feeling contractions with Cytotec
Taking doses every couple of hours
Contractions went from 0 to 100 quickly
Husband does lots of double hip squeeze, she uses the comb trick
She gets epidural but it takes a couple hours
3rd cervical check - 7 cm, 90% effaced
4:45 fully dilated
he came out in only about 20 min
Things didn’t go according to plan, but she feels good about it all and having gone home AMA
Managing anxiety - birth affirmation cards, meditation, yoga, doula coaching her in vocalizing to bring her tone lower
Reflecting on meeting her son
Breastfeeding challenges - overnight hours particularly isolating
At 6 weeks seeing a lactation consultant
Feeling like a failure in giving baby a bottle of formula
Power pumping and taking supplements
Still supplementing with formula
Her breastmilk supply is getting better/more regular
Got a milk bleb
Working with the lactation consultant for a long time really helped a ton, now just giving one overnight formula
Getting tendonitis
It’s a great adventure
Interview Transcript
Cally: My name is Cally. I'm from Long Island. Born and raised in New York City, but I moved out to Long Island during the pandemic. I gave birth about three and a half months ago. I am a social worker, so I work in the mental health field, but I'm currently on maternity leave.
I will be returning to work next month. So a lot to prepare, to think about. I didn't think about it for a while, but I was grateful enough to have four months off to be with my baby, so it was great.
Lisa: I'm so glad you got that. At least that. That's like the minimum we should get. Yeah,
Cally: I wish I had more, but.
Lisa: Yeah. So do you feel at all, like you're kind of coming out of the clouds a tiny bit at this point? On the other side of the fourth trimester? Or not?
Cally: A little bit since he's sleeping more and so I'm getting more sleep. But there's still so many different milestones that he's hitting and every day is, it's so different. Like all of a sudden he's grabbing things now and I'm like, ok. Like I'm finding lint in like fingers and I'm like, oh, that's something no one tells you about.
You need to clean between their fingers like every couple of hours just to make sure he's not eating lint. Cause he'll grab things and like put them in his mouth.
Lisa: All the time
Cally: Yeah. Yeah. That's something. I mean, I didn't think about too hard, but now it's great. So there's always something new.
Lisa: Right. They keep us on our toes for sure.
Cally: Exactly. So I'm like looking forward to what the next new, fun discovery is when he starts like, moving around or yeah.
Pregnancy and Birth Planning
Lisa: Nice. Great. Well, why don't we start off with just sharing anything you would like to note about your pregnancy. Were there any issues, challenges, joys? What were the different ways you prepared for this journey into parenthood?
Cally: Yeah, absolutely. We got pregnant right away after we got married, so, but I'm one of those people who read every single book and downloaded all those apps. So I was like tracking week by week, like what was happening. But relatively, my pregnancy went by pretty uneventfully, I would say. I didn't even have too much nausea in my first trimester.
There were a couple sonograms where they found a little abnormality with an enlarged kidney on the baby, which caused me a lot of anxiety. I do have a history of anxiety. So it was not, you know, fun to have to have so many repeat sonograms. We ended up having to wait until the baby was born anyway, to figure out what was going on in his kidneys and everything turned out fine.
Cally: So it was a lot of unnecessary anxiety and sonograms in the beginning because they're saying that back in the day, a lot of people were born with enlarged kidneys and nobody really noticed and people just lived life with an enlarged kidney that eventually resolved itself. But, yeah. But other than that, my pregnancy was pretty, pretty good.
I really enjoyed being pregnant. I worked out almost every day. I did a lot of yoga, uh, prenatal sort of workout classes and very light strength training. I was reading everything, I was preparing a lot for labor because I really wanted an unmedicated, natural sort of labor.
I hired a doula. I looked into every single breathing exercise, every single relaxation exercise. I mean, my husband practiced them all with me. And one thing I was like, hoping that wouldn't happen would be like, don't let my water break, because then I would have to get induced, and then I would have to, and then that's exactly what happened.
So, you could plan and plan and plan and plan, and sometimes things don't go according to plan. But,I think it all worked out well in the end.
Beginning of Labor
Lisa: Great, thanks. Well, unless there's anything else you wanna share about pregnancy, feel free to jump into your birth story. How things started. You kind of already alluded to it a little bit, but--
Cally: I know. It's so funny. About two weeks before, I was due, so I was 37 weeks and like a handful of days, 37 weeks and six days I think.I was walking, I took a walk with my husband and we were talking to our neighbors and we were joking like, Oh, when's the baby gonna come?
Oh, any day now. It could be next month. And that morning at 4:00 AM. I woke up and my water broke, I thought my water broke because I wasn't sure. It wasn't like a big gush of water. I was just, my, my underwear was wet and I was like, okay, did I pee myself?
Lisa: Common question.
Cally: Did I pee myself? I can't be that wet. And I woke up and I went to the bathroom. I peed, and then I went back to sleep. And then I woke up again and was like, wet. I'm like, I think my water broke. And at this point I'm like, really not sure. I went back to the bathroom, I put a pad on and I tried to go back to sleep because, again, it was just, it was like a couple of droplets.
It was so light that I wasn't sure. I woke up at like 30 minutes later. It's like 4:40 AM at this point. And I'm like, I think my water broke. And I poked my husband and I was like, I think my water broke. He's what do you wanna do? And I was like, well, I'm gonna wait it out. And this is, this goes back to birth class, Lisa.
When we were learning about what do you do when your water breaks? And I remember you saying, or reading about, waiting it out. I had asked my OBGYN what to do if my water breaks and she said to go to the hospital right away. I remember reading in, in birth class and talking to you about,not going there right away and waiting for labor to start naturally.
And I really didn't wanna get unnecessary interventions. And this was a huge thing for me. And I think I alluded to this, but I really, really did not want unnecessary interventions. I really didn't want that cascade of all these different interventions that led to eventually a c-section.
Cally: Like my one thing was I really did not wanna c-section. I really didn't want that. So I just stalled. I went back to sleep. It was really hard to go back to sleep cause my mind was racing. I was very anxious. So I, I think it got maybe another hour of sleep. Woke up at 7:00 AM. Tossed and turned, woke up at 7:00 AM and I had to put on those disposable underwear.
I was ready, I was very ready. I had it all ready.
Lisa: Ha. I love it.
Cally: I had, yeah, I had disposable underwear and I put it on and I just went about like brushed my teeth, ate breakfast and I'm stalling. I'm really trying to stall because I remember you said that you had someone who went to the hospital and said that her water broke at two, but she didn't mention if it was 2:00 AM or 2:00 PM and it was like a full 12 hours before or something like that.
Lisa: That's episode five of the podcast.
Cally: Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, I'm gonna do the same thing. So, because at this point I had no contractions, I had, there was nothing, I, and I knew that if I went to the hospital, they were going to want to do an induction.
Triage and Being Pressured to Induce
So I'm stalling. And finally, I think it's 11:00 AM and I already ate all my breakfast and I did everything. And then I called my OBGYNor the on-call, 'cause that actually happened to be, Memorial Day, that day that my water broke. So no one was working that day. So it was the on- call OBGYN.
They're like, Okay, well come to the hospital. They're like, Well, you can,you pack your stuff, take a shower, eat something, and then come to the hospital. So I'm stalling again. And I'm stalling, I'm stalling. And I don't think I decided to go to the hospital until five. At the same time I was calling my doula and I was like, What do I do?
What should we do? And she was in agreement with me and she was okay with me stalling a little bit. We both, my doula and I, and my husband, we all went to the hospital that evening around 6:00 PM I would say. I'm in triage by 6:00 PM. And they triage me. I am only about half a centimeter dilated.
And, I think negative two station. And they're like, all right, our recommendation is induction. And again, I, at this point, I still don't have any contractions. Nothing's happening. I'm just trickling water at this point. No huge gush. I'm barely dilated.
The baby's really high up in the pelvis. Like I know all of this from birth class. So I was like, ok, so if we do an induction, how long is it gonna take? And they're like, it might take like a whole day, like 24 hours. And I was like, well, can I go home and do that? And wait for it out. And at this point it was a nurse talking to me.
Cally: It was the physician's assistant, and I'm asking a lot of questions because I really am trying to either stall induction or just try to go home and wait it out. they're saying, we don't recommend you waiting it out. We wanna do an induction. And I said, what would an induction entail?
And they, cervical ripening, they talked about a Foley balloon and all of that. And I was like, I really do not wanna do that. At this point, they called in the OBGYN to talk to me and answer all my questions. And, we can't have you sitting around the hospital and not do an induction.
Signing an AMA to go Back Home
And I said, Well, what happens if I wanna go home and wait it out? She said, We do not recommend it, but you can do whatever you want. It's a free country. And I said, I wanna go home. And then they were like, Okay, so you just have to sign an AMA, that you're signing yourself out against medical advice.
Cally: Which sounded very scary to me at that point, right? I, again, I have this history of anxiety. I'm constantly worried about the safety of the baby, safety of me, right? They're telling me all these things, there's a risk of infection, there's a risk of, you're gonna have to get induced anyway and contractions aren't gonna start by itself.
Meanwhile, in triage, I'm just with my husband 'cause they didn't let my doula come in. She's outside. I'm texting her frantically and I'm saying like, What do I do? They're telling me like all of these risks, but I really, don't wanna get induced. And then she said, something that made me think she's, throughout history women have had their water broken,spontaneously and there was no induction medication back in the day.
You know what happened back in the day? Like they waited it out. Yeah, you're right, they waited it out. And it should be okay. At the same time, I'm also frantically Googling articles. There's a lot of actual research and articles out there and there was some information about how it's safe to wait 24 hours. And there was another article that said it was actually safe to wait 48 hours.
So I was like, okay, not all of these people can be wrong. So I think it was like 7:00 PM at this point in the evening. And I was like, I'm leaving. I wanna go home. At least I'll feel more comfortable at home. I'll feel a little bit more in control, but it was a very agonizing decision.
And I wouldn't say that the hospital was fear mongering because I think they were just doing their due diligence. it was just like, there is a very high risk of infection if you do sign yourself out.
Cally: Higher at the hospital, though. Higher risk of infection in a hospital. I just, that's so important to point out and to realize.Yeah, and they'll say things like, Okay, are you going home? 'Cause I'm like signing out and they're giving me my clothes back and they're unplugging things from me. Cause I have all these things on me monitoring my blood pressure and stuff. Just check.
What did they say? Like, oh, if you see any discharge that's like black or green, come back right away. make sure if you have a fever, take your temperature, come back right away. It was like a lot of questions. I know they're trying to keep me safe, but I'm also freaking out at this point.
Lisa: Hmm.
Because of course it's a very hard decision. I don't think there's a lot of people who show up at the hospital after their water broken, then go home. It's really uncommon and that's why I asked you to come share. Especially having the guts Cally to sign an AMA, which for anyone who's not familiar with what that is, that's a piece of paper that is saying, I am doing this thing against medical advice. It's trying to release them from liability should a complication arise. And that's hard in our doctor-knows-best society to say, Okay, yeah, I'm gonna sign this thing that is explicitly saying, I am going counter to what the doctor is telling me I should do. But I applaud you for that. Like, if that is what you wanted to do and you felt was best and safest for you and your baby, but I also acknowledge like you're saying, it can be anxiety producing.
'Cause you're like, am I doing the right thing? I don't know.
Cally: It was a really hard decision, but just knowing at that point, like I wasn't feeling any contractions, I was barely dilated. I knew it was probably gonna be there for 24 hours or something. If I'm gonna be there doing nothing, I'd rather be at home comfortable, eating my own food, sleeping in my own bed.
Even though I barely got any sleep that night, it just felt a little more in control of the situation. And I, if you knew anything about me, I'm always somebody who followed the rules. Doctors know best whatever the doctor says I do. So this is the first time in my life I've ever gone against the doctor's orders and I'm like, Oh my God, am I doing the right thing?
So I went home. I remember eating Chipotle that night and I'm like thinking, Oh my God, did I make the right decision? And I'm like, feeling, making sure my baby's still kicking cause I'm so worried and anxious at this point. But, I did everything. Even before I went to the hospital that morning, I was like rolling on the birth ball.
I was on my hands and knees. I was doing all of those exercises. I was trying to induce labor. I was trying to get him in the right position. And I remember just meditating, that night, that morning, just taking some deep breaths, just making sure everything's okay. Barely slept that night.
Still no contractions. Like I think I had some cramping, or maybe light contractions that night, but nothing terrible. So I woke up that morning, I'm like, All right, I guess I have to go back to the hospital. It's been like 24 hours at this point. A little more than 24 hours, actually. My water broke at 4:00 AM It's 7:00 AM the next morning.
No contractions. I'm still trickling water at this point. I went through so many disposable underwear, and I'm like wow, I'm surprised there's so much water in there, but somebody told me that you continually replenish your amniotic fluid.
Right as you're hydrating. I'm just drinking like gallons of water. And I texted my doula and I told her I'm gonna go to the hospital.
Returning to the Hospital
I stalled a long time. And I don't think I got to the hospital until 10:00 AM that morning. And at this point still no contractions, they did the cervical exam. And I'm very aware that like when your water breaks, I don't want too many cervical exams. So, I'm very aware they did a second one and I am still, same thing, nothing changed. Half a centimeter dilated, negative 2 station, nothing changed. And so at this point they're like, Well, same recommendation. We want to start induction and this, I had a different physician's assistant this time. And I really, I wanna say she was just very rude or she was just like, well, are you gonna get admitted now?
It was just almost like she had very little patience for me. And I'm like, well, I came back, I'm gonna follow through. I'm gonna do the induction. 'Cause it's been, I think at this point, like 28 hours, 29 hours.
Beginning the Induction Process
So we started the induction process. It actually took a while to get a room. And, I had to just take a medicine that would help me with my cervical dilation. A cervical ripening medicine, as they call it. It was called Cytotec and it tasted like water and nothing happened for very many hours actually.
Lisa: So they administered it orally for you.
Cally: Yep, they administered orally. I really didn't want that Foley balloon thing. I didn't want anything going up there, especially since my water broke. So the good thing is there was just an oral medication to help my cervix dilate. So I think I started at 2:00 PM that day. So this is the next day. And then no contractions for a while.
At this point I'm like, What is going on with this baby? Does he wanna come out?
Lisa: Well, yeah, the Cytotec, most of the time is not gonna create powerful contractions or effective contractions anyway. Some people feel them but most of the time we're usually gonna need the Pitocin. So it's kind of almost like pre-labor. It's just really mostly about ripening that cervix.
Cally: Yeah, and I really didn't wanna get Pitocin. I just remember wanting labor to start as naturally as possible, and I wasn't against Cytotec, but I just really didn't want Pitocin until it was absolutely necessary. At this point, I think this is in the evening.
And I'm starting to feel a couple of contractions and every two hours I have to take a dose of Cytotec and each time the dose increases. I think there's supposed to be in all like 10 doses. I can't remember how many doses, but I was only maybe four or five doses in, and my contractions started getting so bad.
It was so painful. Again, I'm trying to do it without epidural. I'm trying to do everything as naturally as possible, but because of the induction, I'm wondering if the contractions hurt more because of the Cytotec. I don't know.
Cally: This is my first kid, so I don't know. And it just, it hurt so much. And it just went from zero to a hundred. I can't explain it. Like one minute I'm like brushing my teeth and I'm getting ready for bed with my husband. And the next minute the contractions just came out of nowhere and they were happening so fast.
So strong. And I was like, I want the epidural. And then it was really backed up that day. So it actually took two hours to get an epidural because there were a lot of other people giving birth apparently. And they're like, you have to sit still for this epidural. And it was terrible. Let me tell you what got me through Lisa.
Cally: It was this comb trick that I think I saw on Instagram or something where you're holding a comb and it's to like hit some pressure points. That comb got me through two or three hours of pain. And Hung, my husband, was doing those hip squeezes that you had taught us.
And it was just, it was so helpful. But because the contractions were happening so close, or at least in my mind, they were so close. And he got maybe like a two, three minute, four minute rest and then it came up, again. And poor Hung, he was exhausted. I can tell. My doula wasn't here because I thought the induction process was gonna take a long time.
So once we started an induction my doula had arrived with me at the hospital that morning. Because they told me and her that the induction process might take a long time, I sent her home. And so she wasn't there and so she couldn't really help out with that part. So thank God my husband learned some tricks, Lisa , cause it was the comb and him doing the hip squeeze, for those three hours that I was able to, get through it while waiting for the epidural and then during the epidural they're like, you need to sit still, and you know, Hung couldn't be in there.
So I was just squeezing that comb for dear life.
Lisa: The indentations.
Cally: Exactly, but it really helped, I dunno what it was, but.
Lisa: It's supposed to boost endorphin production.
Cally: Okay. I thought it was some acupressure thing as well.
Lisa: Yeah, it is. Yep.
Baby Arrives Quickly
Cally: I got the epidural. and then they did a cervical check. It was only my third cervical check, since my water broke. And I was seven centimeters dilated, like 90% effaced, and then they rushed me to the delivery room and my doula arrived at that time. She was in labor and delivery with me. I started feeling pressure immediately. So I got the epidural at 4:00 AM. I got checked at 4:45 and I was fully dilated. And around five AM I started pushing. So he came out pretty fast. I think I pushed only for 20 minutes and he came out So I never finished the induction medication.
I was only halfway through the induction medication. And I would like to think that me going home, laboring at home, you can't see me, but I'm doing air quotes. Me going home, sort of giving it more time helped start the process so that I didn't have to take the entire induction protocol.
And, I didn't have to wait the full 24 hours. He came out less than 12 hours after I started induction medication. So
Lisa: That's great. That's the shorter end of the range that that it can take. So I don't doubt that at all. And so you're saying you never had any Pitocin?
Cally: I never had any Pitocin. I never finished a Cytotec And, even though I got the epidural, despite wanting to go as natural as possible, I only had the epidural for two hours before he was out. So they unplugged me right away. I was like, Oh, okay. So, I felt like I did that mostly unmedicated, I would say, cause I remember the pain lasted so much longer than the actual relief.
So in total it was 50 hours after my water broke that my baby came out. And, my first thing I was worried about was like any signs of infection.infection in the baby and me, and everything was fine. And they were checking me out throughout my stay there and everything was fine.
Cally: So I'm lucky, I guess, I'm sure infection is something that happens, which is why they tell you and make sure that you're aware of it. But, again, I feel like going home and just being in my own space and just, again, I'm someone who gets so anxious and stressed out.
If I was in the hospital, it would've been not a great experience for me. Would've been stressful, would've been very anxious. And even though I was anxious at home, I was at home, I was in my own space and I was able to put more time between, actually taking the induction medication, and him coming out because I eventually didn't have to finish that induction medication..
I didn't have to get Pitocin. Like I managed to dilate, and I was surprised he came out so fast and pushed him out on his own, within 20 minutes. So, despite everything not going to plan, I actually really loved my birth story. I feel like I took as much control of it as I could. I know there are a lot of things in life that are uncontrollable.
I felt I owned the process a little bit, right? A lot of it I had no control over. I had no control over the fact that my water broke, had no control over the fact that I did have to get induced. But you know, everything worked out in the end.
Anxiety Management and Reflections
Lisa: I was wondering when you mentioned your anxiety several times, you did bring up meditation. I was wondering if there were other things that you do or did specifically in your labor and or pregnancy to manage anxiety.
Cally: Yeah, so meditation is a big part and I've always meditated even before I got pregnant. Breathing exercises, many different types of breathing exercises. And the big thing that I did, my doula and I came up with was, we did birth affirmation cards. So during the labor, she had actually printed them out for me.
And I had them spread out on the table around me. And I'm just like, taking deep breaths, trying to breathe through contractions and just reading them or having my husband read them. Cause at that point I couldn't read, I couldn't focus. I would like to say that it helped.
Cally: I also feel like if I wasn't someone who practiced meditation more regularly, I would've been even more anxious or even more stressed out. I've practiced yoga for 20 years. I'm not that old, but I've practiced yoga since high school. And the yoga part of the breathing really helped as well.
And it helped that I was practicing it during my pregnancy before labor. I don't know how that affected me mentally. There's part of me that I feel like if I was more of a meditator and more like zen, I wouldn't need the epidural. A little part of me felt like, Oh gosh,maybe if I had breathed through another two hours, I didn't know he was gonna come out and just two hours. Maybe I could have done it fully unmedicated.
Lisa: That plays such mind games with us, doesn't it? The whole, not knowing how long you have do it but induction's a hard way to go. It really is. It's not your body's natural rhythms and strength and it's a lot harder to tolerate. So I would say go easy on yourself.
Cally: Yeah, so like part of me afterwards, I'm like, was it more painful 'cause of the induction medication or is this just what it's supposed to feel like? Because I convinced myself that it was harder because of the induction medication. But I'm gonna give myself a little bit of grace.
I love the birth affirmations. I think that's super helpful. The breathing exercises. Oh, you know what also helped? My doula was just telling me cause I was screaming a very high pitch and she told me to go lower. I think at one point it was very melodic, like a low moan, that really helped.
Because I was like, was I really loud? Cause afterwards I asked my husband, Was I really loud? Did you hear me outside? He's no, cause he had to go outside. He couldn't be in the room when they were doing the epidural, but I was I wouldn't say screaming, but I was like, really moaning 'cause I had to stay still during an epidural.
I was embarrassed about being loud and overheard. And he's no, nobody heard you. But the low pitch sounds really, really helped. So it's almost like that yoga "ohm" right? When you're "ohm"-ing?
That came naturally to me. So I'm just like, "ohm"-ing.And it did help. And the surprising thing about an epidural was like, Oh my God, I still feel a lot of things. I thought it was gonna completely erase all pain, but
Lisa: Everybody takes it differently. Yeah.
Cally: Yeah. Well, for me,it's like I still feel a lot of things, and at that point they're like, Do you feel like you have a lot of pressure? I think you're ready to push. I was like, Yes I do.
Lisa: Mm-hmm. Yeah the epidural doesn't remove the pressure.
Cally: Yeah. I would like to say I had a mostly unmedicated birth, but I think, yeah, I have nothing against epidurals. It was amazing.
Lisa: Yeah. Great. I'm glad you did the best with what you had, and even if that wasn't the plan, it's good you were flexible and adaptable. But also advocated for yourself for what you wanted-- to go home.
Cally: And I really think honestly going home helped the labor process along, even if I wasn't fully in contractions, I just can't imagine spending 24 hours or something just sitting there waiting for something to happen. And just feeling so anxious, and I am just someone who would go crazy. I would just drive myself up the wall if I had to.
Induction Space and Triage Experience
Lisa: I wanna ask one clarifying question. You mentioned moving to the delivery room. I know the hospital where you gave birth, unlike most hospitals, they have an induction space. Is that what you were talking about? Were you in that induction space and then they moved you when you were about to be pushing?
Cally: Yeah. I was in a room that is I think specifically for inductions. So I was in there for a really long time, I think. And then when I got my epidural, when they checked me and they saw that I was seven centimeters dilated, then they moved me to a labor & delivery room. And I was only in that other room for, I don't even remember what that room looked like. Cause I was only in there for two hours, I think. but yeah.
Lisa: Yeah, I don't know why that hospital does that. Most hospitals, at least in the New York area, whether you're induced or not, you're in your labor and delivery private room for the whole thing. So you're not like transferring anywhere. Once you get through triage and you get admitted, you're just there for the whole thing.
Cally: Yeah, and I, it was a weird day too, 'cause I remember, I had to wait a really long time to even have an induction room open for me. I was in triage for five hours before they even found a room for me for induction which is why induction took a while. Which again, I think it helped cause it stalled me again some more, right?
Like it was another five hours before I actually officially started the induction medication. At one point, it was so bad, the pain, that she came with the next dose of Cytotec and I mean, I asked, do I have to take this? Like my contractions are really bad. That's when we talked through, we need to do a cervical check. Let's make sure you're doing okay. So.
Lisa: And was Hung able to be with you in triage for that five hours?
Cally: Yes. Yeah, my husband was with me the entire time, so, it was nice. It was good and they let me eat too before I got sort of officially admitted.
So I was in triage eating chicken noodle soup, which was good. Also wanted to mention that, so throughout the induction process, I wasn't allowed to eat, so I was on a liquid diet. So they serve Jellos and soups and broths and stuff. And I remember again, something I learned from your classroom and then I remember reading on Evidence Based Birth that there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to eat.
And I was sneaking like crackers, I was eating.
Lisa: Good for you.
Cally: I was like, I need energy because I, I'm like, it's been 12 hours since I ate anything. I was eating crackers, I was eating like a granola bar, was eating chicken and rice and I just ate a couple of pieces of chicken 'cause I'm like, I need some protein.
Yeah, and I, at this point I had my appetite. I was really hungry, so I was seeking food when the nurse wasn't there. And I feel like that gave me a little more energy because I honestly, by the point I gave birth I hadn't eaten anything in 18 hours. just Jello. I'm like, how did they expect me to have energy to give birth?
Cally: I mean push, if I don't eat anything. So I'm glad I ate whatever little things I was able to eat. I'm like, there's no way Jello would've given me energy for that. So that's something I wanted to mention, too. I really went against a lot of rules. Butyou did what is evidence based and for a healthy birth, so yay.
Yeah, I felt I was educated or informed enough to know that I would never make decisions knowingly that would adversely harm me or my baby. Right? So I, I know the whole rule against eating is just, you know, a little outdated. So that's something I wanted to go against and the whole rule about getting induced right away was also really interesting to me because my OBGYN told me that back in the day, she used to send people home. And she's not older, she's like maybe in her forties or fifties.
So she said back in her career, back in the day when somebody's water broke, they would send them home. And she said, But nowadays, we start induction right away and
Cally: I was like, Why? And it was the whole risk of infection thing. And I'm like, how often does that actually happen, you know?
Lisa: You know me, I'm about to get on a soapbox because if the risk of infection is lower being in a hospital, then why, earlier in Covid, why were they sending people home a full day earlier to get them the heck out of the hospital to reduce the risk of infection?
Cally: Yeah, I know. Exactly.
Lisa: It's so ironic and backwards.
Cally: Exactly. So again, I felt very comfortable with that decision, of going home. It was hard. I'm not gonna say that it was an easy decision. It was definitely one of the hardest decisions. because I remember telling my husband like, Are we putting our baby's life in danger?
I would never forgive myself if God forbid anything happened. But, thank God, because I was talking to my coworker and this is probably a side note, Lisa. My coworker, took your birth class too, and her water broke, and she waited 24 hours and she did have to get induced and she actually did get an infection.
So just a side note, like I remember hearing her story and I was like, Oh, geez. That's, I don't want that to happen, but I dunno, I feel like the yoga helped. I feel like all the yoga, all the hands and knees. I was doing all of that while waiting to go to the hospital and I was just trying so hard to induce contractions and start things up.
I felt like it helped. I felt like my state of mind helped. Who knows? These things just, it's different for everybody.
Lisa: Hmm, with your friend and my client, how did everything turn out with regard to the infection? If you don't mind my asking, if you're comfortable sharing.
Cally: I don't remember, but they told her like, her fever spiked. So when she got to the hospital,she was given Pitocin though. She didn't do a cervical ripening. She was given Pitocin, her fever spiked, and she was still not dilated enough, so she ended up getting a C-section.
And she went to the same hospital that I did. I didn't ask the details, but I don't know why some people get Pitocin, some people don't. And why some people get the, I think they start with the cervical ripening first and then they go to Pitocin. But I'm just, I'm kind of glad I didn't have to go to Pitocin, and that everything just kind of, started up and then just went really fast.
Lisa: Yeah, and most of the time if there does end up being an infection, we treat it with antibiotics. It might mean mother baby separation or parent baby separation after the birth, just depending on the hospital protocols, but usually it ends up being okay. It's not like there's any tragic outcome or anything.
Obviously we'd like to avoid it if we can. But that's really uncommon for that to happen as long as we're abiding by best practices to minimize the risk of infection and all of that. But I'm sorry to hear that that happened for your friend.
Cally: Yeah, that was one of the things I was like, well, what's the worst thing about an infection? Can't you treat it like, that was one of my questions. I know it's good to avoid, like you wouldn't wanna knowingly go get one, but like it's treatable, right? I felt like the risk of infection wasn't the worst thing that can ever happen. Which again, I felt like there was a lot of fear mongering. I get it. There's a liability thing with hospitals. I get why they're doing it. But it doesn't help people with anxiety, I would say.
Lisa: Yeah. And we can't even fault our OBs, our nurses, because there are so many layers of administration hovering over their shoulders. Like they have a safety officer telling them, you gotta do a C-section now, and that's an unfortunate pressure that our OBs and hospital providers have.
Meeting Her Baby
Lisa: Well, is there anything else you wanted to share about the birth before you share a bit about, I think you wanted to talk a little bit about postpartum.
Cally: What did I wanna share about the birth? No, I think it was good. I just remember joking with my husband. He really didn't wanna be born on May 30th or May 31st. He really wanted to go home two days later on June 1st it was sunrise too. With the sun shining into my vagina.
Cally: They had the shades up. So my little baby really knew how to pick his birthday.
Lisa: And anything to note emotionally about meeting him? What you did feel or what you didn't feel?
Cally: It was so surreal, everything was so surreal. I don't know, maybe cuz I was just in a daze at that point. But I can't remember anything up 'til the minute he was born. Everything just felt fuzzy to me. Like I'm sure you hear a lot of new mothers do that, but I also remember the nurses around me saying how amazing of a job I did.
They're like, Wow, your water broke like 50 hours ago. Is this unheard of? Like, I was just like,
Lisa: Well, your fast, very efficient pushing stages is uncommon for a first timer. Yeah.
Cally: Yeah. Yeah.
Lisa: I'm sure they were impressed with that.
Cally: The fact that he was born at 6:30 AM and the nurse shifts start at seven. There's a new nurse on staff, so that nurse who was on staff was like, Wow, I didn't think I was gonna get one more birth in today. So it was really funny.
But no, it was, the minute they put him on my chest, I was like, all the pain, all of everything, all the anxiety just kind of melted away. Obviously nowadays I have a different type of anxiety with taking care of a newborn. But, yeah, there's nothing like that moment.
Postpartum and Breastfeeding Challenges
Lisa: Great. Well then you wanted to talk a little bit more about mental health and postpartum, I think, and breastfeeding challenges.
Cally: Yeah, I think I spent so much time preparing for labor and it just happened so fast that I never thought about the postpartum period. Or I didn't think about it as much as I did. Nobody tells you how hard breastfeeding is. And the challenges of, struggling to feed your child, being up in the middle of the night, feeling like you're the only person dealing or struggling with that especially when it's like that middle of the night, like 2:00 in the morning, like I'm the only person up with a baby right now, which obviously I'm not. But it feels like you are, and the baby, whether they're not sleeping or they're not latching or anything like that, it just, I just feel like all of these problems are so unique or personal to myself, which I know they aren't.
So I definitely had a struggle with breastfeeding. I felt like I wasn't sure if it was a latching issue or if it was, just low supply. But whatever it was, we started, supplementing with formula. It wasn't until the baby was six weeks old that I saw a lactation consultant. And I remember learning in birth class like, get a lactation consultant, have one on hand. Like I was like I don't wanna think about that, all I wanna think about is how to have an unmedicated birth. Like I was so focused on labor. And I remember, talking to my therapist, my whole focus was on how to have, a safe labor, how to avoid a C-section. Worrying about the pain, as a first time mother, that was all I was worried about and I didn't spend as much time preparing for postpartum as I would've liked.
Not that, there's really nothing to prepare you for it. I think you know, you have to just do it. But yeah, breastfeeding was such a challenge and I think it really, really impacted my mental health because there were times where he was crying. I was crying because I felt like I couldn't feed him.
I didn't have enough milk and I felt like my boobs are made for one job and I wasn't doing that job and it was just such a struggle. And I felt every time I had to give him a formula bottle that I failed. And I know a lot of people feel that way and they tell you like, don't feel like that you failed.
Feeding your baby no matter how you feed your baby is what's important. But there's just, I feel like there's so much guilt around not being able to breastfeed or guilt around choosing formula over breastfeeding. There's a lot of shaming I think that goes around that's very subtle.
But it's there. So around six weeks I did hire a lactation consultant and we were able to work together to figure it out. I started taking supplements, started power pumping. I'm still breastfeeding now. I'm still supplementing with formula. So I've made my peace with it, but I've gotten to a point where I feel like my supply is more regular and it's more able to feed my baby.
Cally: But those first six weeks, it was really rough because I just remember just crying so much. Cause I felt like such a failure that I could not do the one thing that I thought was gonna come easy. So I always thought breastfeeding was gonna be easy. I heard stories about people who struggled. I mean, I know that it wasn't an easy thing, but, it was definitely, it was just hard. I remember my nipples were in pain, and I developed, they call it a milk bleb. And it was painful and I still had to do it, because if I didn't do it, it wasn't gonna stimulate the supply and this poor baby was crying cause he was hungry. And my mom was like, Just give him a bottle.
I'm like, No, he needs to suck on my breast, cause he needs to stimulate breast milk. So we'll let him suck for a little bit and then we'll feed him a bottle of formula. But it was just a struggle because everybody around me wanted me to just give him a formula bottle and nothing wrong with formula bottle, but I was so determined, to breastfeed and so, I mean, I feel like I succeeded.
Like I, I'm breastfeeding now. He's three and a half months old. He's mostly breastfed. He has one formula bottle at night to just kind of hold him through the night. Everything else is breast milk. So I worked with that lactation consultant for a really long time. They make house visits, which is great.
So I, yes, I was like, Oh God, I have to go carry this newborn baby to some office. And I found the one who made a house visit and it was great. And they have this great scale that will measure how much milk he's taking in. And I, again, I was like, Oh my God, he's taking in so little. And I was like, How is he being fed?
Cally: But he was making weight at every doctor's appointment. In the beginning he was losing so much weight that that's why I was feeling like a failure. But once we established my milk supply, he was making weight at every doctor's appointment, so I felt okay. And then I remember the lactation consultant said like, sometimes mommies just make exactly enough for their baby, like no more, no less.
And that made me feel better because I see people like pumping like bags and bags and I see freezer supplies and I felt like so bad and she was like, No, sometimes people just make exactly enough for what their baby needs, so you might not be one of those people who will have a giant freezer supply, but that's okay because he's making weight and he's growing.
Cally: So that made me feel a bit better. But, sometimes nowadays I still feel a lot of anxiety around feeding him because I, it's really hard with breastfeeding cause you know how much he's getting. I'm not pumping it out and seeing it, and feeding him, he's on my boob. So I don't know how much is actually going into him. So it's a lot harder. And like every time he goes to his doctor's appointments, I'm always like, fingers crossed. I'm like, I hope he's gaining weight. And that anxiety is so much that it's getting harder. It was hard in the beginning. It's getting a little easier.
There's still a lot of residual anxiety, I would say. I plan to breastfeed for six months, but my milk supply is actually doing that well now, so I might continue breastfeeding as long as I have a supply going. But yeah, no, nobody tells you how hard it is.
Combo Feeding and Supplementing
Cally: Yeah, no, I feel like people don't talk about it enough. Just normalizing combo feeding and supplementing with formula. I remember I was in the hospital and I was in so much pain. My nipples were so raw and I was like, No, I'm gonna keep doing it and keep doing it and my OBGYN made a visit, and she's I supplemented with formula. You can do that? I didn't know you could do that
Lisa: Absolutely. Yeah.
Cally: I didn't know that I can supplement with a bottle.
I just want my baby to be okay and I'll work on the other part. So I feel like people need to normalize that a little bit more.
Supplement formula, or talk about it more. I feel like it's always one or the other, like breastfeeding or formula. And nobody really talks about, like there are people who supplement one bottle. There's some people who combo feed. there's so many options that I didn't learn about or think about until I got to this point.
And then also never thought I would spend so much of time trying to figure out how to feed my baby.
Lisa: Right?
Cally: My mom was formula fed, and my mom's like, What's the problem, just give him some formula? And I'm like, no! So again, I think it was a generational thing. A cultural thing and then just me being very sort of stubborn and going No, this is what I really wanna do. This is what I really wanna try to do. And I feel like yeah, I was able to do it, but it was just so hard in the beginning. Nothing really prepares you for your boobs getting sucked on that frequently.
Lisa: Totally. Right.
Cally: Like, I'm like, I don't think my nipples are able to handle this, but they're made for it. So, they're able to adjust, but like, definitely it is an adjustment period. And just that period of like, constant, like, I'm like, I just fed you. That cluster feeding is so hard and then it makes you feel like Oh, I'm not making enough milk.
That's why he needs it every hour. And all of this stuff is normal, but nobody talks about it. Or or at least, we don't talk about it enough that I just felt like such a failure. but yeah, those first couple of weeks they were a doozy, let's just say.
And now I'm just like, same thing. I didn't think I would stress out so much about feeding my baby, but now that I'm starting to think about like solids and stuff,
Lisa: Right. Coming up in less than three months. Yeah.
Cally: Yeah. Yeah. Start stressing out about that as well. But at least, you
Lisa: Then you're seeing what's going into their body, so at least there's that encouraging aspect. Less mystery.
Cally: Exactly, and there's options, right? There's milk and there's solid food as opposed to just milk. Yeah.
Lisa: Mm-hmm. If you had to do it all over again, would you call a lactation consultant sooner? You said you called around six weeks is when you started to work with one?
Cally: Yeah. I called around six weeks, Well, I did one virtually like at three weeks. And I met with her twice, but the virtual didn't work for me. Like it wasn't helpful, like she couldn't see the latch. Well, tried to see the latch and you couldn't weigh the baby.
So then I was like, I need to see somebody in person. And I was worried about how much it costs and it turned out my insurance covers it. So I actually found one through your website, through the New York, was it the New York Lactation Association?
Lisa: NYLCA. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Cally: I found one through there. Yep. Yep. And there was one in Long Island Cause I wanted to find someone in Long Island and wanted to find somebody that would do home visits and actually found a great one.
So, it was amazing. And if I had to do it again, I think I would've called earlier, or I would've called right away. But,I thought I could get it. I thought I could do it all on my own.
Lisa: Sure. Oh, I was the same way and I really wish I had called in for the support.
Cally: Yeah. Cause I was like, well, what can they do that I don't already know? And I think that's part of my whole, like I read everything and I did everything, but it was like a lot of things. and part of it wasn't even just the strategies, it was just like encouragement. Like he's gaining weight.
You're doing a good job. And I was like, Am I? Just started breaking down.
Lisa: Open the floodgates. Yeah.
Cally: Otherwise he wouldn't be gaining weight. Because it doesn't feel like it because you don't know what's going on. and during this time, I think six weeks was when he was again going through another cluster feeding thing. So I'm like, then why is he always hungry? Am I not giving him enough? That's 'cause my mom was helping me throughout this period, taking care of him. And she's like, why is he always hungry?
Cally: And my mom kept trying to push formula, she really wanted to just make my life easier. and I talked to my therapist about it. Because, look, if it's gonna start affecting your mental health, then maybe you shouldn't work so hard on it. And maybe it's just easier to go with formula because then there are a lot of things that people don't tell you that breastfeeding takes up your time, it takes up your sleep.
Wrist pain. Like wrist pain was a huge thing for me that I actually had to end up seeing a doctor for. there's a lot of side effects, I wanna say that they don't tell you that kinda really all of it impacts your physical health, your mental health, right? So I remember talking to my therapist who was just like, if it's easier to just go to formula and it will help you, sleep better and have more free time and feel more in control then maybe we should consider that.
Cally: And I really considered it. Again, I'm just a very determined person and if I decide I wanna do something, I will be really good at it. As you can tell, I was always an A plus student, but it was just one of those things that it's not like you can study for it and get a good grade.
There are people who legitimately, you know, have low supply and there are people who legitimately cannot breastfeed. So, that's why when I started to work with a lactation consultant and I was like, Well, what's the issue? Let's try to figure it out. And if it's not fixable, I will accept it, but if it's something that I can do, I will try my hardest. And look, I'm still not a hundred percent breastfeeding him. I still rely on some formula, but I feel good about how he's fed now. I feel like we've finally gotten into some sort of routine. Back then it was just like all over the place.
Lisa: Mm-hmm. Yeah. There's no such thing as a routine really in the beginning weeks, by three months you can get into a little more of a routine.
Cally: Yeah, absolutely.
Lisa: Great. Well, I'm so glad you've found what works for you and your family, yourself and your baby.
Cally: Thank you.
Mommy Wrist
Lisa: So would you mind elaborating a little bit?
I know you wanted to talk about the whole wrist pain thing, 'cause that hasn't been highlighted on this podcast.
Cally: Yeah, that's also something no one ever tells you. I think it's called Mommy Wrist or Mommy Thumb. It's a tendonitis, on the thumb side of your wrist, and it's from various different motions. Repetitive acts, right? holding the baby. So I remember when he was little and I had to hold his head up to my boob, or to hold my breast in a certain way so that it would angle towards his mouth.
So there were a lot of repetitive movements and strain on my wrist. So in the beginning, I had a lot of pain on my wrist. I remember, wearing a brace and then it went away. And then in a month or so, I think because my baby's gaining weight and I'm holding him a lot more now, it was just, it was so painful.
It was so inflamed, that when I went to the doctor, we had to do a cortisone shot, just to relieve the inflammation, but apparently this is something that a lot of new mothers get. And my friend had to get a surgery where they released the surrounding sheath around the tendon, because it was just getting so inflamed.
Cally: But I feel like no one ever talks about it because I was just kind of going through the pain. I think I went three weeks before I even Googled anything about it because I was like, Oh, this is supposed to be normal. I'll just ice it and I'll just get used to it or my wrist will get stronger, or something like that.
But again, nothing I learned about, I didn't think about it too much. And 'cause my baby's still young and I still have to hold him, there's still a chance, you know, that it'll come back, and there's only so many cortisone shots that you can get in your wrist apparently, and if it doesn't resolve itself, then we'll have to, go to surgery.
Cally: So it's something that I'm super aware of now. It's also another side effect of breastfeeding, right? Because if I was just feeding a bottle, somebody else can do the bottle. I could just go feed him with a bottle instead of holding, it's a lot of maneuvering.
So now I'm trying to be very aware of it, but motherhood is hard, Lisa. There's a lot of things that I don't think about, but look, I would do anything for my baby. So.
Lisa: Yeah, I always wish we had more time in birth class to go take a deeper dive into functional movement. I just very briefly bring it up in class. And when we're practicing picking up babies, I often mention be careful how you're holding your baby, because often we do get some wrist issues from the awkward ways that we're repetitively, carrying the baby or breastfeeding the baby or changing their diaper or whatever, but we just don't have enough time to really talk about that and really get a more full education. So that's why I give some of the online different exercise programs that do in many cases take a deeper dive into getting your body into better alignment after birth and during pregnancy as well.
And how do you get out of bed and how do you get out of a chair and how are you moving about your day, including, the hand and wrist things. And I will, as I'm preparing the show notes for this episode, I'm going to look up to see if I can find a recording of a class that I took that was for expectant parents and birth professionals. It was with a hand and wrist surgeon, he talked about this very topic.
About different strategies to try to help prevent those kinds of issues.
So I don't know if there's a public recording posted of it, but I'm gonna look that up and I'll link to it in the show notes if I can.
Cally: Yeah, that would be great. There's apparently exercises and my brother's a PT so he is Yeah, you should do this. I'm like, Well, you should have told me this a long time ago. But yeah, there's like exercises you can do or to strengthen it. But yeah, there's a lot of picking up and putting down that especially now that I'm trying to sleep train, there's a lot of picking up cause he's not gonna stay down.
So I'm like so aware of the way I'm like, doing it now, but in the beginning I know I wasn't. I was in a daze.
Lisa: Yeah.
Cally: I know people can't really see what I'm doing right now. But, it was such an awkward position and I remember it would just be numb and I'm like, Oh, that's okay.
And I would just shake it out.
Lisa: Holding your breast for breastfeeding is what you're talking about, the sandwich hold.
Cally: The sandwich hold. And it was just I remember such an awkward way on my wrist, and I remember feeling like, This can't be good. And then low and behold I end up with tendonitis. So, they're only gonna get heavier at this point.
Lisa: Right. So having some support and strategies could be helpful with that.
Cally: Yeah, baby, what is it, baby carrying?
Lisa: Baby wearing?
Cally: Baby wearing, yeah.
Lisa: I was thinking about that because you're not then having to use your wrists and your hands.
Cally: Yeah.
Lisa: When they're in the carrier, hands free.
Cally: That really helped. It helped me. I have a baby who just loves to be held, so there was a lot of awkward holding him and you can see my wrist.
But the baby carrying thing was really great. So, I advocate for that as well.
Closing Advice
Lisa: Yes, Yes, yes. I'm so glad you brought it up. Great, Cally. Well, thank you so much for sharing all of this. This has been wonderful. Are there any final tips or insights or words of advice you would have for expectant parents who might be listening?
Cally: I don't know, I just think it's definitely an adventure. and I'm still learning as I go. I don't think I would do anything differently because I feel like every single thing has just been very educational for me and informational for me.
And it's a great adventure. I would not trade it for anything in the world. but yeah, definitely I acknowledge that there are a lot of struggles. There's a lot of anxiety, a lot of hardships, but have a good support system, know who to go to. And, definitely ask for help, do not be afraid to ask for help. That is my final insight.
Lisa: Those are good ones.
Cally: Yeah.
Lisa: Well, thank you again, Cally. It's been great to see you, and I really appreciate you taking the time to share your great story.
Cally: Thank you for having me.