Birth Matters Podcast, Ep 112 - Choosing Homebirth Amid Prenatal Depression

Taylor and her husband never expected to have kids, and if ever maybe around 40. Then one day when Taylor was only 30, surprise! She was pregnant. In today’s episode, Taylor, who identifies as a biracial Black woman, shares how she went from working with a hospital OB to planning a homebirth with midwives and a doula. Her beloved doula, Chana, joins in today’s sharing, too. Taylor shares how getting off her mental health meds in her pregnancy wasn’t a good idea and how she had never realized that prenatal depression is a real thing until she experienced it. She also shares how well-supported she felt, how everyone deserves to feel safe and supported in their births, and what a gamechanger her choice of birth setting and team has been in supporting her mental health every step of the way. And of course, she shares all the juicy details of her homebirth story, which will include a passionate dislike of castor oil’s unpleasant side effects and an in-home visit from an acupuncturist to help move labor along.

Resources:

Sponsor links:

*Disclosure: Links on this page to products are affiliate links; I will receive a small commission on any products you purchase at no additional cost to you.

Episode Topics:

  • Surprise pregnancy during Covid

  • Didn’t like the different OBs she met where she lived at the time on Long Island

  • Found doula Chana on a parent group, she helped her find a care provider

  • Switched to Stony Brook midwives, but then moved to Astoria which was too far

  • Interviewed a couple of homebirth midwife, but getting her husband on board was hard

  • Interviewed Cosmos Midwifery (Chloe & Jenna) at 18 weeks and husband was sold after that meeting on homebirth

  • Experiencing prenatal depression, got off meds but regretted it

  • Chana connected Taylor with Brooklyn Parent Support (Rebecca Feldman)

  • Midwife was communicating with her therapist (Rebecca)

  • Feeling very lonely in pregnancy

  • Didn’t love being pregnant, but had a physically uncomplicated pregnancy

  • Due time was November, and was prepared to likely go late

  • Had tix to Hamilton for Oct 13th, which was her 36 week, 5 day appointment

  • Jenna came to her house that day, Taylor feeling a lot of pelvic pressure and requested a pelvic exam, baby very low

  • Needed to make it to 37 weeks to give birth at home

  • Did make it to Hamilton

  • Felt like she had a stomach bug

  • Monday was 37+2 appointment, intense pressure

  • Asked Jenna to do another check, baby even lower

  • Cervix was showing some dilation and effacement

  • Jenna offered to strip her membranes, she declined

  • That night (Mon 10/17), something felt strange, thought water broke

  • In contact with Chana and Jenna

  • Jenna came next day, she’s having some contractions, she’s in the bath

  • Jenna says it’s still really early and leaves

  • Taylor starts feeling anxious

  • Early labor one of the nicest days in their marriage, spent time together

  • Jenna came back around 5pm and then went back to her office and returned

  • Contractions picking up

  • Chana arrives around 8 or 9pm

  • They confirm water had broken with pH strips

  • GBS test results at 36 weeks got lost and new results weren’t back yet, so they did IV antibiotics

  • Contractions getting more uncomfortable

  • Everyone encouraged her to go to sleep

  • Jenna came back at 4am to administer IV

  • They tried castor oil and Jenna recommend acupuncture to speed things up

  • Took a walk at 5:30am to get bagels

  • Castor oil causes much stronger contractions

  • Jenna came back and checked Taylor and asked if she wanted to know the findings, Taylor says no and Jenna leaves

  • Jenna speaks with Chana before leaving, tells her Taylor is not far along, shows her everything in her bag just in case

  • Taylor’s going back and forth between shower and bed

  • Stephanie Propper, acupuncturist, comes for a home visit

  • Taylor is feeling tons of pressure as Stephanie starts acupressure and moxibustion

  • Ritual of tearing pieces of toilet paper

  • Jenna gave Chana her personal cell number

  • Chana thinks she’s about to have a break to walk and get lunch but Taylor talks her out of it

  • Taylor starts vomiting, dry heaving

  • Moved back to toilet

  • Wanted Stephanie to stop touching her (even though she’s great)

  • She gets very calm, there’s a shift and she asks Chana to get Jenna

  • Told James to fill tub

  • Jenna came in and Taylor quickly migrated to bed, ready to push

  • Pushed for around 10 minutes and Taylor caught her

  • Expressing gratitude for the support she received 

  • Shirin (from East River Doula Collective) was Taylor’s postpartum doula and was incredible - came day after birth

  • Taylor knew Shirin because Shirin was a customer of Taylor’s baked goods

  • Mental health started to slip back into depression around day 3-5, got very dark very quickly

  • Was in touch with therapist Rebecca as well as Shirin and Chana

  • Breastfeeding was hard on her mental health

  • Worked with Ellen Sidel for lactation and then now is working with Barbara Cohen, both great

  • Working on oral restrictions - at 12 weeks did several releases

  • In the past week or so she’s felt the fog lifting

  • Final reflections - ask for help

Interview Transcript

Lisa: Welcome to the Birth Matters podcast. Today, I'm so excited to have Taylor with me, as well as her doula, Chana. Hello, Taylor and Chana.

Taylor: Hi, Lisa.

Lisa: So Taylor, would you first just introduce yourself a little bit, maybe share with us, if you wanna share where you live, the neighborhood you live in, and how long ago you gave birth, and just anything else you'd like to share.

Taylor: Yes, of course. Hi, I am Taylor. I live in Astoria. My daughter will be four months next week. And she is with me, this is Iyla.

Lisa: Love seeing Iyla. 

Yeah. Chana, do you wanna introduce yourself real quick? She's been on the show a couple times sharing her babies' birth stories, but now she's coming on as the doula.

Chana: Hi, I'm Chana. and I was Taylor's doula. 

Taylor: She was the best doula.

Lisa: Nice. I'm really excited to have another birth story circle. This is very cool. It's fun to have the doula perspective. 

Surprise Conception

So Taylor, why don't we start off with talking about your prenatal journey, if you'd like to talk about the conception and or, pregnancy and how that went and the different ways you prepared for this journey into parenthood.

Taylor: Okay.

So my husband and I didn't want children. And if we did, we were gonna start trying when we were 40. And if it didn't happen, it didn't happen.

Oh, well.

Meanwhile, when I gave birth, I was 30. I got pregnant, it was unplanned. And I just was like, taken aback, completely, just terrified.

And I wasn't prepared mentally and anything like that, but I feel like there is no, you can't a hundred percent prepare for being somebody's whole mother, having a lifetime commitment. So yeah, so I freaked out. Tried to get in with any OB I could get in with because the OB that I'd been seeing at the time, I couldn't get in with her until August, and I found out I was pregnant in February.

So obviously that wasn't doable. I was living on Long Island at the time. Husband and I have now sold our house, and we are living in Astoria, like I said earlier. 

Dramatic Beginning

I went to a doctor, they confirmed it, but it was a little dramatic. They sent me to the hospital because you couldn't see anything on the sonogram.

And so I was actually put in the hospital. They were prepping me for the DNC saying that they thought that it was ectopic, because they couldn't find a sac anywhere. And, the hospital was like, okay, well we're not giving you anything to eat or drink. We're gonna do the DNC. And it turned out, this wonderful older man, he was honestly like the angel that I needed at the time. He came in, he was an OB and he said to me, you're not doing anything to her. I'm gonna see her in my office on Monday.

This was on a Friday. And, every two days for a couple weeks he was checking, doing all this blood work. And, I was so scared because I wasn't prepared for this child, yet I so desperately wanted her to stick. And we ended up finding out a couple days later, so Tuesday, of the following week that I was only three weeks pregnant.

So that's why they didn't see anything on the sonogram.

They were trying to DNC me and there was nothing there. And, she just needed time. Yeah, but loved this man so, so much. And he was incredible. And he was down the street from where I used to live on Long Island, but he didn't do deliveries. He's like, I'm too old for this. He was in his eighties. 

Lisa: Oh my goodness. 

Search for an OB

Taylor: So that was when the search for an OB came in. And so I had met with a few doctors and I had just a very not super pleasant experience and it's kind of like dating. You have to like that person because that's the person that's helping you bring your baby into the world. And I was planning on doing a hospital birth, but things ended up changing. One day, after meeting with a couple OBs, I searched in one of the mom's groups, of the local, the place that I lived on Long Island. And somebody recommended Chana.

Just, I was like, I need help. I need an OB and at that time I didn't know what I needed, somebody recommended a doula, and she came up and so that's how I ended up with Chana.

Lisa: At the time, do you mind my asking, did you know what a doula was, really? Or 

Taylor: Absolutely not. 

Lisa: Okay. Yeah. Because a lot of people think a doula's the same as a midwife, that a doula is a clinical care provider, where we're absolutely not. Right. Yeah. Great. So you Chana.

Taylor: I found Chana.

Lisa: Learned what a doula was, I imagine, along the way. 

Taylor: I found Chana, figured out what a doula was, and immediately after talking to her, my husband and I were so at ease and we're like, oh my God, we love this person, and we don't even know her. We have to hire her.

Lisa: Do you remember how many weeks you were at this point?

Taylor: I was, it was probably mid-March, I believe it was mid-March if I remember off my head. So I was probably like 10 weeks. 

Lisa: So first trimester. Okay. 

Taylor: Yeah. And I was also like banking on this baby making it to 12 weeks. It just like that fear of when you are newly pregnant and the stress of is it going to last? But at the time, I didn't have an OB, I didn't have somebody that I liked.

And so that's you know, where Chana came in, and she had originally recommended a midwife, cuz I was planning on going the hospital route with an OB and she knows OBs, she's worked with a few. And so this was the last OB I ended up meeting with. And she knew prior to me going to her, she wasn't gonna be a good fit. But I went anyway. Cause I'm like, well, what does she know? She knew. And that was still, that was on Long Island. So then I ended up getting with Stony Brook midwives. And that was prior to us deciding to move to Astoria, which ended up being like a two hour drive.

And that's without terrible traffic. But, I loved them. They were great. I was planning on giving birth in their hospital and there was, one night I was, I think I was like 15, 16 weeks. Cause we had just moved to Astoria. and I ended up really dehydrated. And Stony Brook has a pregnancy and like new mom ER so they don't let regular people go in there.

Deciding on Home Birth

I was like, I don't wanna get sick. So we went there and it took us two and a half hours to get there and my husband and I realized we can't do this if I'm in labor. And then that's when we really buckled down.

And Chana had previously mentioned maybe doing a home birth before, and I interviewed with one person, one midwife who she's based over here, but I don't know, I was like, I'm just gonna give birth in a hospital because that's what you think you're supposed to do because that's what everybody does. That's what you hear about.

And so it didn't work out with her. I was still with Stony Brook. And so then, getting my husband on board to doing a home birth was a whole other situation. I know Chana did speak to us both about it, and I was like, okay, well, she was right about everything so she'll be right about this.

And we interviewed with one midwifery practice, which is, they're around here. And then it just wasn't a good fit. My husband was not on board and I was like, I can't sit here and try to convince him to try to do a home birth because I need him to be on board and supportive of it.

He has to be comfortable with it too, because it is his baby. He's more concerned about me though. And I feel like a lot of people, they think, oh, well if there's an emergency, that's it. Like at least you're at the hospital. But, I learned in doing birth classes and just by speaking to so many people who work in birth work, that it's very rare that there's actually an emergency. It seems like in the hospital they make things out to be emergent when they're not. Right.

And so then we interviewed with Cosmos Midwifery, and that is, Chloe Lubell and Jenna Hutchens. So this is June, I was 18 weeks. James, that's my husband, we interviewed with them and he was like, all right. He's like, we can do this. And I was like yes. I finally got him on board. There's no more convincing. 

Lisa: Yay. What do you think, was it just their vibe or was there something they said safety wise?

Taylor: So they answered all of his questions, like they give you an interview, a time slot of a certain amount of time. We ended up going over that time, he got all of his questions out, his what if this happens, and what if this happens? And I was just thinking, I'm gonna be fine.

There's a lot of hospitals around here. We're super close to the Upper East Side. There's a few hospitals over here, like we're fine. And, I think that he really clicked with Jenna. I really clicked with Chloe and then I was of course devastated because she was, at that point, I think eight months pregnant.

And so, yeah, that's how I ended up with Cosmos. And then I realized very shortly after, I totally made the right decision. I realized that, that first prenatal appointment, Chana's heard me say this a million times, I didn't know that you choose the kind of care you get.

It's like you just, you by default you go to these providers that are recommended to you by people and we vet out people to see our children like the pediatrician. That that was a whole to do for me. I put more effort into care of my animals, like the vets and the pediatrician.

I never did that for any of my providers. And now I know you can. And it's incredible to me. Like I even, I saw a post the other day on Instagram about OBs and like how they're generally very rude and very quick and to the point. And I wrote underneath this video, I said, you can choose the type of care you deserve.

And, maybe that made a difference to one person because I don't think a lot of people realize that you don't have to deal with being treated as just another insurance payment. and so yeah, that's how we decided to go the home birth route. 

Lisa: Everyone listen to Taylor. Yes. Thanks to Chana. Absolutely. And I'm just so thrilled to hear that when you, as a couple, met with the right practice, that your husband just had all his questions answered and all of his concerns, like totally put to rest. It's just so encouraging. I get chills thinking about it. And yeah, everyone listen to Taylor because especially in New York where we have a lot of different options, there's almost always, I know in more rural places that it is coming from some degree of privilege and or location that we can say, yeah, you don't have to put up with that.

But you know, to the degree that there are options, you shouldn't have to put up with lesser care or less than what you deserve. Really respectful care. So thank you for sharing that, Taylor.

Taylor: No problem. Yeah. Hopefully somebody will hear this and realize that if they're not happy with their provider, you can switch at 20 weeks, you switch at 36 weeks.

You wanna be happy with that person who is guiding you and your unborn child into this new part of life.

Lisa: Absolutely. Yeah. And I'm glad that you were so on top of things. You're gonna have a lot more options the earlier you consider those things really carefully and seek out options.

Taylor: And, I had reached out to quite a few, like Chana had given me a list and everybody was full at that point because I didn't realize that, with home birth midwives, they only take so many clients a month. And so, who I originally wanted, by way of Chana, I couldn't get with her because she was booked and then some through the end of the year already. 

Lisa: They book up really early. Yeah. 

Taylor: Yeah, but I ended up with the perfect fit for me. 

Lisa: Anything else about pregnancy, prenatal journey or else if not, you can go into your birth story whenever you're ready. I do have one question though. With your home birth midwives, did you go to their office, did they come to your home, or was it a combination for the prenatal visits?

Taylor: So I had the option to just do 'em virtually every other visit. But I am just like an in person, I wanted to know that she was okay. I wanted to hear heart tones. Like I wanted at least that part of it because I was expecting that, you know, they do an ultrasound every time. because every time

I went to Stony Brook, they did an ultrasound. And really, every time you go to any OB, I believe depending on the office, they'll do one. So you just know that everything is okay and I am like queen of anxiety. So, that gave me closure that okay, everything is fine. Just by hearing her heart and getting that in-person, that's just me. After years on Zoom, it was nice to be able to go into the office.

So I did end up going every month. At 36 weeks, Jenna came to me. And it was just, it's very cool. You never have a provider come to your house and just made sure that I had what I needed.

Depression During Pregnancy

So I'm gonna go back a little bit. My pregnancy was, it was fine. It was fine. I did end up going through very bad depression. I had previously dealt with depression and anxiety. I had been on medication prior to getting pregnant, and then I got off of it because I didn't wanna be on while pregnant. Word to the wise, don't get off of your meds. And so, I believe it was around like 16, 17 weeks, everything just became way too much for me to handle. It's probably sooner than that, because I remember I had texted Chana, just feeling like everything was closing in on me, and she was like, okay, I'm gonna call you later.

She called me and she basically told me like, you don't have to deal with this alone and there's help. And at that point, she was able, because I'm sure if you listen, you know that she works in mental health. She was able to link me up with Brooklyn Parent Support.

They're incredible. Rebecca Feldman, she used to be a midwife and now she is a psychiatric MD. She is glorious. I started seeing her, very soon after, and got back on meds. It took a little while, but we got me back to a space of normal where I wanted to live cuz it got to the point where I didn't know how I was going to go on and I hadn't felt like that in a very long time.

And I had a lot of shame getting on medication because I was pregnant and I didn't think that was fair to my daughter to have to be on medication because I was on medication. And it's like, what's best for mom is what's best for baby. 

Chloe at that point had gone on maternity leave. Jenna was very in contact with Rebecca. And so everybody was on the same page with the medications. And so from then on out, like everything, we were good. We were good. And I didn't realize that that's something that I didn't know people dealt with is bad depression during pregnancy.

You hear about the postpartum, everything is the postpartum. You're somewhat prepared for, okay, well I'm gonna have this child, things are gonna change, and there's a chance you could end up depressed after the time period of just like your hormones and everything. I had never heard of people getting depressed during pregnancy and here I am and I felt so much shame and I felt terrible.

And I made a point of, once I kind of got into a better head space, I told people like, this is something that's very real and you feel, maybe not everybody does, but there's something very lonely about pregnancy. You're going through it alone. Even if you have a house full of kids and a husband or a wife or partner, like you're alone in that journey physically.

You're just, you're with your child. And I never realized that. And, thankfully, we have the resources thatI was able to stop working and really just, I had to take care of myself at that point. And, so I got the help that I needed. But, things got better and the rest of my pregnancy was normal and yeah. Everything was pretty good. 

Chana you gonna chime in?

Deep Connection with Doula

Chana: I just wanted to chime in. Just I wanted to share how incredibly proud I was to work with Taylor through this. I think one of the benefits of her hiring me so early was I got to really connect with her in such a deep way. But more than that, in regards to time, that she reached out to me.

And it was so, it was so powerful to me to be able to share that I'm gonna, I'm gonna get choked up because, as somebody who suffered from deep depression while I was pregnant and felt that loneliness, and now as, a doula and as a therapist for people in the perinatal space, to be able to like work with even just one and connect them with the resources and people like Rebecca Feldman and her group at Brooklyn Parent Support that, do the, true incredible angel work of helping people who need help at that time.

It was really so meaningful and whenever I interview with potential doula clients, I tell them like, don't care how many births somebody has attended, I've been a doula for many years, but there are doulas out there who are right for somebody when they haven't even attended one birth.

And I really feel like Taylor and I just had a connection and that this was able to come from that was so meaningful for me. 

Taylor: I love you. You make me cry. Thank you for that. No, I agree. Wholeheartedly. I now have somebody, a part of my life, for life. And I thank the person that recommended you, because I don't think I could have gotten any luckier. Oh, I said I wasn't gonna cry today. Yeah, she's been just incredible. And now I'm gonna go down the Chana road of like, oh God, she's the greatest thing ever. I might inflate her ego. 

Chana: Let's talk about the birth.

Lisa: Yeah. Are you ready to jump into the birth? 

Taylor: Yes, yes.

Lisa: Don't wanna cut you off if there was anything else you wanted to share about pregnancy.

Mentally Preparing for Post-Term

Taylor: No. Everything else it really was, an easy pregnancy, physically. Mentally, I just, I was going through it. But you know, with the right care, I got through it. 

So yeah. I feel bad saying this, but I didn't enjoy being pregnant, I felt like a stranger in my own body. But, I started feeling really good, towards the end when I like, okay, I'm definitely prepared to be pregnant for 42 weeks. Because that's what, when you're not working with an OB who works in a hospital, you're not on the schedule to be induced after a certain point, and the midwives taught us like, okay, first baby, there's a good chance you're gonna be pregnant post-term. And so I was mentally prepared, yeah, I'm gonna be pregnant for 42 weeks. I have so much time. So this was in October. My due time was November 5th.

And I just have to mention this because this is a big part of it. I had tickets to go see Hamilton on October 13th, and I was praying at that point, that was my 36th week appointment that day. So October 13th was my 36 week appointment.

Feeling Intense Pressure

Jenna came to the house and we just went over everything for the birth, and I was having a tremendous amount of pelvic pressure. Like it felt like I needed to poop just constantly, and it felt like I was sitting on something. And so, if you work with midwives, it's optional they don't generally do pelvic exams.

I had her do one for me because I was so uncomfortable. So she did one and she's like, wow that baby's really low. And at this point I was 36 weeks and five days. and you have to be 37 weeks to give birth at home. And so I was like holding my breath at that point cuz I wasn't sure how much longer she was gonna stay in.

And so Jenna reassured me, she's like, you're good, I think we have a little bit of time. My next appointment with her was Monday. I did make it to Hamilton, Iyla and I both bounced through it the whole time. 

But that evening when I got home, I started feeling really sick. I thought I had a stomach bug and I was sick from Thursday to Sunday, just not good. And Monday was my 37 week appointment. So I was 37 weeks, two days. The pressure that I was having was so intense. Like I asked Jenna, I was like, can you just check? Something's gotta be wrong. And the baby's head was lower on Monday than it was on Thursday.

And I had dilated and gotten more effaced from Thursday to Monday. And I was very uncomfortable at that point.

Jenna was like, well, I can strip your membranes. And I had all the anxiety I'm like, I'm only 37 weeks, I'm not ready. I need another five weeks. I need that extra time. And so, I went about my day. I was like, we'll talk again, I was due to her next week, I was like if I'm still pregnant we'll revisit it based off of how comfortable I am. And I also didn't want any interventions or anything if I didn't have to have 'em.

That night, so this is the 17th, Monday, October 17th, and my husband's an accountant, so he's on deadline until October 15th. I wasn't allowed to give birth until after the 15th so I was- 

Lisa: Allowed. 

Taylor: -stressing about that. 

Contractions Begin

They made jokes about it, like she can't go into labor. So it was the 17th, his last day of deadline. That evening, around, it was like eight or nine o'clock. I had taken a shower, and something felt strange.And I thought that my water had broken. 

I was in contact with Chana, I texted Jenna, the midwife, and she's okay, I'll come see you in the morning. So, she came in the morning and was like, okay. I was having contractions at that point, but had been having contractions for a bit. I had 'em pretty much my entire pregnancy, well. I had, practice contractions. I don't like to call them Braxton Hicks. and so they were close-ish together, but not terrible, like totally doable. so this is the 18th. My husband took off work that day. I had stayed up all night. I was on FaceTime with my mom and my sister, they're in Florida.

I was on FaceTime with them from the bathtub because I was having contractions and I was like a little bit uncomfortable, but it was more anticipation of when's this child gonna come? And so, she didn't come that day. 

Yeah, so Jenna came in the morning and she was like, so your contractions have to be closer together and they have to be more painful for them to get you anywhere, so I will be back later on today. And then we'll talk. And so she's basically like throwing me to the wolves and I'm like, what're we supposed to do all day? We can't leave the house, what happens if the baby falls outta me. And so my husband and I had a very low-key day, but anxiety had started to kick in at that point. 

But also, I have to say it was probably one of the nicest days in our marriage. We got married in 2019. I knew at that point, it was definitely going to be our last full day, there was no way this kid was staying in. It was gonna be our last full day as like just us. And, oh, it makes me emotional to think about. And it was a beautiful day. It was just an incredible day, and we did so little, but it was just, I don't know, it was different. 

Chana Arrives

And so I continued to have contractions, but like they were going nowhere. And so Jenna came back, again at 5:00 PM. And then she was like, oh, she wanted to do something. So she went back to the office. The office's in Greenpoint, so it's 15 minutes from us. And then she came back again. At that point, my contractions were picking up. Chana came, Chana's the best. She's like on top of her phone answering all the time. So Chana, you gonna chime in? You can absolutely chime in. 

Chana: I think I got there around eight or nine, I wanna say. It was like- 

Taylor: Yeah. 

Chana: -just as Jenna was leaving, she'd come back, I wanna say she had went back to the office to get like the test strips to see if it was- 

Taylor: Yes. 

Chana: -actually your water had broken. So she went back, she got the test strips, confirmed that your water had broken. And like, I was coming in as Jenna was coming out, and she was like, cool, you guys hang, do whatever. She was like, I'm gonna go home and sleep.

Taylor: Yeah. Yeah. And so, oh, okay. So what happened was, they had done my Group B strep test.

Chana: Right, right, right.

Taylor: It hadn't come back yet, the results. They do that at 36 weeks, and Quest lost it. So they couldn't find the results, so what happened was we had to do it again, and we had done it on Monday, results hadn't come back.

And, the treatment for that is like IV antibiotics, just in case. I opted to do 'em, just in case. Also because of paranoia. And so as long as I was in labor, I had to get administered IV antibiotics every eight hours. I think she hung out until 11? 

I'm pretty, yeah, she hung out until 11. She basically reiterated what she had told me a couple times before, like, nothing's gonna happen unless the contractions get stronger and closer together.

And I was contracting, I don't remember how far apart they were at that point, but I was contracting regularly, and they were starting to hurt more and get more uncomfortable.

But everybody agreed that I needed to go to sleep. I was just awake and a ball of energy, waiting for my child to emerge. And so Jenna had to come back at 4:00 AM to give me the second dose the antibiotic and we were in Iyla’s nursery when she was giving me the IV, and she said to me, we have to, if we're going off of that your water broke Monday night, by this evening, by 11 o'clock tonight, this was on Wednesday the 19th, then we have to kind of figure out what the next step is because, after a certain amount of time, you become, a higher of infection once your water's been broken. and so she basically gave me the option, let's try to get you in with somebody for acupuncture.

Using Castor Oil

Taylor: And then, what's it called? 

Chana: And then she gave you the castor oil. 

Taylor: Castor oil. Yeah. 

Chana: I knew it was coming. 

Taylor: Castor oil came to play. I couldn't remember what it was.

Chana: You blocked it from your memory. 

Taylor: Oh God. And so this was at 4:00 am and I was 

Chana: But you got sleep. We put you to sleep. 

Taylor: Chana slept in bed with me. We slept. 

Chana: We slept. We said, we're gonna get Taylor some good sleep. Cuz you were like amped up. So we were like tonight, we're sleeping, when Jenna left after doing the and then said in the morning, we'll wake up when Jenna comes back to the round, then we'll do the castor oil.

Taylor: So Chana and I took a walk at 5:30 in the morning, we went to go get bagels, to open the bagel shop at six. And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna get a bagel. I'm gonna have coffee, I'm gonna have all this good stuff then I'm gonna take castor oil, and I'm gonna feel like garbage and it's okay cuz I'm gonna have a baby today.

And so, we went to go get our bagels, my contractions were getting stronger at that point. We had to stop a couple times, each way. And, yeah, so I got my bagel. We all got bagels. I didn't end up eating my bagel. I didn't end up drinking my coffee. I made a disgusting drink out of castor oil.

Don't do it if anybody ever tells you to take it. And so castor oil, it basically makes your GI tract, it gives you explosive diarrhea. And that's me putting it really nicely.

So it didn't take long to kick in. I felt like garbage. I was, at one point, just going back and forth between the bathroom and the shower. Chana had put beautiful lighting in the bathroom, and I'm just in pain having, they weren't contractions, it was my bowels contracting. Oh my God, when my husband hears this he's gonna be like, what is wrong with you? It was not super pleasant. And it takes about four hours to leave your system and I don't know what happened, but at some point between seven and 11, it just completely transitioned from bowel contractions to actual contractions.

Lisa: Yeah. And theoretically the idea is castor oil, for listeners who might not be familiar with this as a possible option, although unpleasant for many, is that when we're stimulating the GI tract, that's right up against the reproductive tract and the uterus. And so when one is stimulated, often in turn, the other will be stimulated to contract more strongly. Yeah.

Taylor: And so, yeah. And then at this point, if I had been in the hospital, I would've been induced, because I had my water broken for so long and nothing was happening with my contractions. Also, why I wanted to do a home birth. Because I didn't want that even as an option for me.

So yeah, we had the transition of like terrible stomachache. Oh God, I just I have like phantom cramps from it,

Lisa: Your body is like, I remember that. 

Taylor: So I spent a lot of time in the shower. We did have a pool that was sitting in my daughter's crib, in her room, blown up, but not full.

What time did Stephanie come, Chana?

Midwife Checks Progress and Labor Continues

Chana: You know what happened, actually? 

Taylor: Go ahead.

Chana: I think once it turned from like uncomfortable from the castor oil into contractions, I think Jenna came back, and checked you and she said, do you wanna know? And you 

Taylor: I didn't wanna know. 

Chana: You said no. 

Taylor: I did not feel well at that point.

Chana: Because you didn't feel well and you said no and she said, okay, well then that's fine. And she said, keep doing what you're gonna do. I think she said go, get in the shower, whatever. And she was like, I'm leaving. I'm going. 

And you were still in the bedroom, I think. And I went out with her, and she told me what the exam was. And it was not far along. And that was when she said, I'm leaving. She said, I'm gonna show you my bag just in case. And she gave me a tour of the bag. She was like, just in case anything happens and I need you to help me, she gave me that, showed me, this is where medication is, this is where I keep the Pitocin, this is where I keep the this, I said, okay, put the bag away. And she said, I'm going, I'm leaving. Cuz she said, she'd been in touch with her birth assistants that like, in different places. 

And then I think she said, you had made the appointment with Stephanie to come, I wanna say like around– 

Taylor: She was coming, Stephanie was coming at two. So this had to be around like 12 30, 1 o'clock when–

Chana: Yeah. 

Taylor: Yeah. 

Chana: And, Jenna went out and Stephanie was coming. And then, it was around like one o'clock when Stephanie came and you were just kinda going back and forth between the shower and the bed. 

Taylor: And the toilet. 

Chana: And the toilet, like not comfortable, but yeah. But like whatever. And then Stephanie came. 

Lisa: Stephanie came in and I am sitting on the toilet. I had this, just the pressure and it felt like I needed to poop, but at that point, there was nothing else in me. I was sitting there and I was having contractions, and I didn't know at that point how to make it feel better, and it felt a little better on the toilet. Can we clarify? Stephanie Propper is an acupuncturist. I'm not sure if anyone said that.

Labor Ritual and Coping Mechanisms

Taylor: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. She travels. Yeah. So I'm sitting on the toilet and so, you're taught in birth class that you, and I took birth class. I wasn't lucky enough to take it with you, Lisa. But I did. I took it with Manhattan Birth and they were phenomenal. 

Lisa: Oh, they're excellent. Excellent. 

Taylor: But they teach you, you end up like with these little rituals and I have to bring this up cause it's so funny. So nothing was happening when I was on the toilet, but every time I sat down, my toilet paper holder was next to me. I would pull off pieces of toilet paper. Chana's laughing.

I would rip off pieces of toilet paper the entire time I was sitting on the toilet. And that was my ritual. And we laugh about it now. I wasn't laughing about it then. Yeah, it brought me comfort. So then Stephanie walks in. I'm like, not in a great condition. I was not happy to see her.

I was uncomfortable. And, she started working on me on the couch. Do you remember what she was burning, Chana? She was burning something and it was very stinky.

Chana: Yeah, she was burning moxa, and you were like, No. And you were like, I don't like that. And she was like, ok. She put it out, but then she had, just like a cream, and she was just doing acupressure points. And she was like, do you want me to do some needles? And you were like, I don't know. And you were just laying on the couch. And Stephanie's like, go wherever. I'll do whatever you need to do. 

Taylor: She's sitting on the back of my couch. 

Chana: Literally like a cat, perched on the back of the couch, doing these acupressure points. And I'll just say as my anecdote, at this point, so Jenna had left, Jenna was like, I'm gonna go get something to eat. We were like, cool. And also she had shown her bag and she said, take my cell phone number just in case, not the Cosmos line, my personal cell phone number, just in case anything. I said, okay. So I took her number. And then at that point I thought I was gonna go out also cuz I was like, I'm gonna go take a walk.

Labor Intensifies

I was like, I'm gonna let Stephanie treat her. Let you and James have alone time.

Lisa: And I remember you were on the WhatsApp group and I was over near where you were then 

Chana: Yeah. And Yeah. And you like, 

Lisa: Offering bring some lunch, 

Chana: Where should I go to eat? I'm like, with the doulas, what should I get to eat? Like I need something, Lisa's like, go here. We're talking about it. I'm literally thinking I'm gonna have a two hour walk around Astoria. 

Taylor: Chana, this was definitely, this was like two o'clock at this point. 

Chana: Yeah, it was like two o'clock in the afternoon. So Stephanie was on the couch working and I don't know if I said I was gonna go out. I think Taylor,

Taylor: You told me you were gonna go out.

Chana: I said I was gonna go out. 

Taylor: Yeah. 

Chana: And you were like, no, can you stay? And I was like, sure, absolutely. Thinking like I, I had heard the exam was. I was like, I'll go out later when Jenna comes back, I've got time.

Taylor: She didn't have time.

Chana: Go ahead. 

Taylor: So Stephanie was doing her thing. I don't know what, I got very nauseous. And I started throwing up, which I hate doing, but there was nothing in my stomach. I feel like I was just dry heaving. Like nothing substantial came up. But I did feel a bit better after that. And then I ended up back sitting on the toilet because I was so uncomfortable and I didn't want Stephanie to touch me anymore. And by the way, she's incredible. She came to me postpartum, but I didn't feel well. And so I went and sat on the toilet again, and at that point something happened and that's when, you know, you're taught in birth class that pushing is so not, like you can't control it. It's like throwing up. You're not stopping it once you feel like you need it. 

Chana, I think I asked you to get Jenna. I got very calm and I asked you to get Jenna because I knew at that point something was happening. And so I don't remember, how long was it before she got, I know, cuz she tells me every time I see her, you interrupted me eating olives. I was eating olives on the curb of your house. 

Chana: Yes. Luckily she was just on the corner. But I remember, you said, you were sitting on the toilet and I was like sitting next to you James was right outside and you said, call Jenna. 

Fast Pushing Stage and Baby’s Arrival

And I said, James, call Jenna. And so he called Cosmos line, but didn't go, And I said, oh, I have her cell phone number. I was like get my cell phone. James got my phone and I called her and just said like Taylor said she wants to come. Like she feels something.

Taylor: I told James to fill up the tub.

Chana: Yeah. Oh yes, yes. You told James to fill up the tub. Stephanie was there,

Taylor: Trying to figure out how to fill up the tub, quickly enough cuz like, yeah, I'm gonna get into that tub. I'm gonna birth this baby in the tub. Jenna came in and I ended up so quickly in my bed. Like there was no, I was ready to push at that point. 

It was just like she had to get, they were scrambling to get pads underneath me because I was just like ready to go. And James told me, he's like, Stephanie said to me I should maybe come into the room and not fill up the tub. 

Like it kills me, that she was here, and I'm like, crowning, and she's like, I've gotta go. Yeah, so I was in my bed on my back. I didn't want to be in that position, but Iyla decided she coming out then and there. I pushed, I think for 10 minutes. and she was out and I caught her. And I have to say it, I was so terrified, I was afraid of birth. I just think that we're all, some kind of fear that's instilled in all of us, like around birth and oh, it's so painful, so terrible. but it wasn't really, it wasn't terrible.

And for what I got after going through it,it wasn't terrible. It was scary because it was unknown, but I pushed a few times and I ended up with this amazing gift of this little baby, who I absolutely adore. And I say this, just, the support that I received, while being pregnant and just from Chana and from the midwives, like I've never felt so supported in my life. 

Feelings of Empowerment and Reflection of Timeline

Yeah, just, it was an incredible experience. So my birth was, it was a little dramatic, just a little bit, but that's how we are. But it was everything and more. And I did it, and I was so in shock that I was able to do it, but I did. 

It was pretty incredible. And you feel really just empowered afterwards because although I did have to take castor oil, I birthed a baby unmedicated, which, if I had been in the hospital at that point, I probably would've opted for all the drugs because I was uncomfortable, and because I had access to them. But I did it. Unmedicated. And I got my baby out pretty quickly. So yeah, it was something else.

Lisa: Amazing. 

Can you clarify, either of you, from the time that Jenna did the exam and told Chana on her way out that I guess you weren't very dilated. I'm guessing that's not what you said, but you said it was early, so I'm guessing that, from that point to the time you gave birth, I was just curious about how long that was?

Taylor: So, I gave birth at 3:35 PM so it was probably about three hours, I think, between. 

Chana: Maybe it was like 11? Maybe it was like 11 o'clock when thatexam was, so maybe 

Taylor: Was it? 

Chana: Maybe. It could've been noon till three o'clock-ish. Like, look, the exam, I think Jenna told me it was two to three. You were like two to three centimeters dilated. Still pretty effaced, but nothing's normal, right? There's no normal.

Lisa: Birth is not linear. 

Chana: Exactly. Like some people, it's one centimeter an hour and other people go from two to ten in that amount of time.

Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. 

Chana: And we just knew by what you were telling us, right?

Like when you sat there and what I said was, I told Jenna afterwards when you said, get Jenna, I hadn't seen you so serious the entire time and I was with you for 24 hours almost at this point, right? 

Taylor: Like, Get Jenna, and I knew. Yeah. I knew because I felt it. 

Chana: You felt it. You felt it. Yeah. 

Taylor: Yeah. That, my God, that pressure. 

Chana: Yeah. Yeah. 

Taylor: That had been the pressure that I had been having for, around probably 34, 35 weeks I started having an immense amount of pressure. But yeah, she was low. She was low. 

Reflections from Chana

Lisa: Well, so I know we're gonna be losing Chana here in the next few minutes, five minutes or so or less. And so, Taylor, I'm happy to stay on after she has to leave, but I also just wanted to see if there was anything, Taylor, that you wanted Chana to share before she has to go, or if Chana had anything she wanted to share before she has to go.

Taylor: I think I profess love to you enough, Chana, so I won't do it on here. And plus I know I'll hear from you very soon. Do you wanna add anything else then? 

Chana: It was a very, very, very cool delivery. Iyla came out very slow. I mean, pushing was short, but it wasn't like that classic like head then body. Her body actually came out pretty slow. So Taylor pulled, like Jenna said, bring your hands down. And she grabbed her under her arms and really pulled her out. It was one of the coolest things I've ever seen.

It was amazing. And Lucy was in the bed. 

Taylor: Oh, my dog. My 15-year-old wiener dog was in the bed. She burrows.

Chana: She was in bed, and

Taylor: Little doula. 

Chana: I think at one point she like yelled and this was when Stephanie was still next to me there while you were crowning. And Stephanie went, oh my God, who's in the bed? I said, oh, that's the dog. It was like, you couldn't make it up. It was like the best of home birth. Right, right there. It was really awesome. 

Taylor: She's in that same spot right now. Yeah. 

Chana: Yeah, she didn't move. Like, you guys are in my space. What are you doing here? What are you doing here? 

Taylor: And the dog was in the bed when I gave birth.

Chana: And Jenna and I were laughing because she was like, we didn't have time for the birth assistant to come. So Jenna was like Chana, I need you to go get my bag.

And she was like, good thing I gave that little tour of the bag. Cuz I had to fish her out some things. But it was so cool. It was so amazing. It was like, you never see strength the way you see it when somebody literally births their baby. It's 100% the coolest thing in the whole world.

And Taylor was just fantastic. Just unbelievable.

Taylor: So are you. 

Chana: Ah,

Taylor: I, seriously, I'm blessed because I said to you yesterday, I said, thank God for Iyla, because with her I got you. Because of her. I got you.

Chana: I agree. I agree. She's a special gal.

Taylor: That she is.

Chana: And then Chloe came after. 

Taylor: She was supposed to be back from maternity leave November 1st. But yeah, I was supposed to have my baby like another two weeks after that, but she ended up coming in. I think it was kind of a blur for me at that point because I had this baby. I was a mom at that point.

But they were running around. My house was so clean, like my house was cleaner when they left it, than when they got there. Yeah, you guys were all just incredible. All three of you.

Chana: That's what we do. We just went to work.

Taylor: I hit the jackpot with care. That's for sure.

Chana: It was great. It was so cool. And I just wanna say that I think what I saw, with Jenna especially, like when people think about homebirth, they think it's like, giving birth in the woods and no one's gonna be checking on you.

Like you haven't seen care until you watch a midwife give somebody an IV in the baby nursery, rigged up with a hanger. Like it's the best, it's amazing. Every single time with all of it, with the antibiotics, every time was like, Taylor you me what wanna do. Like she ran through, she told you all the options. 

She was like, if you wanna take castor oil, you wanna transfer because of like how long it has been ruptured. And you and James talked about it, you made informed, educated, sound decisions the entire time. 

There was never once Jenna being like, well, you should do this, you should that. She was like, I'm gonna lay out the options and you make the decision. And you did. And it was really so incredible. And I just wish, like you said, like for everyone that, that they realize that you deserve this kind of care. Like everyone does. Even if what you want is a medicated hospital birth.

Like you deserve somebody to lay out every option and let you be the decider.

Taylor: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I mean, when she was giving me the IV antibiotic at 4:00 AM on the 19th. She was giving it to me and she was going over all of this stuff with me. And at that point, I was like, you know what? I still don't wanna go to the hospital. Yes, you're telling me that it is an option. And obviously the percentage goes up of there's a higher chance of ending up with an infection, but I feel safest here. And so if that's the risk that I have to take to feel safe and supported, then that's the risk that I'm willing to take.

And thankfully I did because I had a baby less than 12 hours later. So yeah, I made the right decision. It was hard, but I made the right decision. 

Chana: You did. Amazing. Okay I have to make my exit.

Taylor: Thanks for coming, Chana. Love you, Chana. 

Chana: Love you.

Lisa: It's a love fest. 

Chana: This is the dream team. I love it all. I'll talk to all of you very soon. 

Taylor: Okay. 

Lisa: Bye. 

Taylor: Sounds good. Bye. 

Lisa: All right. Do you wanna talk about postpartum at all? Your choice.

Postpartum Doula Experience

Taylor: Yeah. So I ended up with another one of your doulas. I had Shirin as my postpartum doula. And she was incredible. We had a prenatal visit scheduled for the 17th, and that's the night that I started going into labor. So I had to cancel that.

But she came the day after I gave birth and she's just magical, really. She is just the kindest soul in the world. And I actually knew Shirin prior to getting pregnant because I'm a baker, and I have a business and so I used to sell at the farmer's market in Long Beach on Long Island, and she was a customer of mine, and we clicked immediately and I remembered that she did birth work and it just so happened that she knew Chana.

And so, like very small world, I ended up with Shirin, and Chana knew Shirin, and it's funny because the day that I found out that I was pregnant, I actually called Shirin because I was freaking out. I didn't know what to do. And I told Shirin before I told my husband, 

Lisa: What! 

Taylor: He's gonna kill me. I called her because I was freaking out because this was so unplanned. And said, what do I do? And she's like, just enjoy it. And she's like, you'll be okay. Just sit and think about, just the most beautiful answers, which that's, if you know Shirin you know. 

Lisa: Yeah, I tell her all the time, you inspire me all the time with how

Taylor: Yep.

Lisa: mindful she is and how soulful she is, in all she does. I'm like, I need to be more like that. I wanna be more like Shirin. 

Taylor: Yep. 

Lisa: That is so cool. I knew she was your postpartum doula, did not know the history. Had no idea you each before and that told her first.

Are you saying your husband doesn't know this right now until he listens to this?

Taylor: I'm gonna have to tell him prior to him listening to this, but yeah, she reassured me that it was going to be okay, and she's like, just see what you think feels right, and it will okay, and it was okay.

And so she didn't come every day, I had her come a couple times a week. 

Feelings of Depression

I noticed around day five, I think that's like around when my milk came in, three or five, I started to kind of slip. And I had been on medication the whole time. I had gotten very, very depressed very quickly.

I also wasn't sleeping because I was exclusively breastfeeding, and it got very dark very quickly. And so I was in touch with Rebecca, and I had help. I had Shirin and I had been in very good contact with Chana. 

Breastfeeding Experience

But my baby, there was nothing wrong with her besides, she was having a little bit of an issue gaining. And so that was a big hit for me, because I told myself when I was pregnant, I'm not gonna kill myself if I can't breastfeed. And I was killing myself to breastfeed. I just wanted to make sure that I could do it and you hear so many different things like, oh, you have to breastfeed and it's the best for the baby.

And I wanted to be able to do that so desperately, and I did. I originally had worked with Ellen Sidel for lactation, and then I'm still to this day working with Barbara Cohen. I highly recommend both of them. Barbara is incredible. She's from the city IBCLC, and I saw her after, I think Iyla was like four weeks old, and she definitely has oral ties, but she's not strong enough to get them released.

And so I had to do all these exercises with her for a while, and at 12 weeks I finally got her oral ties released. She had to get her cheeks, lip, and tongue done. And now she's eating beautifully, but it's been a long road and I finally, as of the last week or so, feel like the fog is lifting. 

The Importance of a Support System

I've had to do a lot, and I have good support, I feel like there's never enough. You can never have enough. And I don't have family here. My husband's family is on Long Island. It's, I feel like different generations believe in different things. It's like, oh, well I just took the baby out with my mom like right away. I heard that a lot. Just go out with the baby. It is so much work to get out of the house with a baby. 

Oh remember that, yeah. I was at Chana's house yesterday and I'm like Chana, it takes me longer to get ready to get somewhere than it does once I get there. And then it's just, it's so much easier to just stay home. and It's so important to get out though, because 

Lisa: Yeah.

Taylor: You feel better when you're out. 

Lisa: Mm-hmm.

Taylor: And so it's been a long road. I know that we're getting through it and I now feel like it will be fine. I know it will be fine. I was unsure for a while. And I had adequate support, like I said, you can never have enough. 

Lisa: Weren't you part of our postpartum support group? One of the rounds at least? 

Taylor: Yeah. And I've just had to do a lot of work on myself. I wanna just say, you're not alone. Cuz I needed somebody to say this to me, you're not not alone. The days are very long, the nights are even longer, but it does, it gets better. You hear too often of tragedy happening among moms and their children and, it's okay to not be okay, but you have to ask for help because people don't read your mind.

And there were a lot of people that I'm sure thought I was, oh, you're fine. You look great. I wasn't fine. I am fine now. I'm getting better but, just, it's hard. And this is one of the hardest jobs in the world, and it's a 24 hour job. Like, my husband goes to work everyday, I am with my daughter all day, all night.

And, yes, he's here to help and he's fantastic. But, it's like you're a mom 24/7.

Lisa: Mm-hmm. It's relentless. Yeah. 

Taylor: And these little ones are whew, they're a lot of work.

Lisa: Yes, they are. Especially in these first few months. Yeah.

Taylor: It's been incredible and I'm just so in love with this baby and I've always been like a huge animal person, and I'm just like, this is so different. This is a different love. And I wanna be my best for her. 

Lisa: Yeah.

Well, yeah, and I just commend you, I've so admired how proactive you have been in seeking out the various kinds of support that you've needed, that we all need and deserve. But many just don't have the energy or have the resources to reach out.

And I just, so admire that because like you said, we can never have enough support and so, so admirable that you have been diligent and been proactive in that.

Taylor: Well, I will say that Chana's played a very large role in that because there are days I wanna throw in the towel and I wanna give up, and she is constantly reminding me and constantly telling me how proud she is of me and just honestly, she has been the biggest blessing in my life.

I can't even, I don't even know how to fully put it into words. She has helped me get through and I don't know how I would've done it without her. I know I would have, because we figure things out, but I just, my life has changed because of her. She's just amazing. So.

Finding a Therapist

Lisa: She is. I agree. And just for listeners to know, usually, doulas are not in touch as frequently for as long with their clients. That's not really like part of the package. You all have a very unique, special relationship that is not common or the standard way of doing things, most of the time.

That's one thing I wanted to point out. And then another thing that I have been curious about in the past, that I also wanted to just bring up for listeners, so you mentioned that Chana is a mental health therapist, as well as a doula. She works in those two different professional capacities.

And so if she has a doula client, she is not their therapist, and vice versa. So a lot of therapists I know refer to her as a doula because they know that she has that expertise with that mental health background. But she, as far as I understand it, would never serve both.

Taylor: Legally she can't. 

Lisa: I was guessing maybe you asked, can you be my therapist too? 

Taylor: I did, I asked, and she's like, no, no. I can refer you to somebody.

Yeah, because when she told me, she got like in depth with me. This was at the beginning, I was like, oh, can you be my therapist too? No. 

She referred me to Rebecca Feldman, and Rebecca is just a gift as well. So I urge listeners, if they need help, Brooklyn Parent Support is phenomenal. Phenomenal. She's got killer therapists, as well. I see a therapist within her practice, as well. 

Lisa: Yeah, you've had such a rockstar team.

Some of my top recommendations in each category, you have worked with them. And I will be sure, Taylor told me that already composed an email, she'll send it to me. I will include all of those things, those goodies, those links, in the show notes, and then a lot of those who you worked with are also on my website at birthmattersnyc.com/resources.

So either of those places, you can check those out.

Massage Therapy

Taylor: Oh, and then one last thing because I'm thinking about it. Throughout the end of my pregnancy, I was going to, and I have to, do a shout cause I absolutely love them, Earth and Sky in Long Island City. 

Lisa: Yes, they're great.

Taylor: I go to Anna Kramer, and I still see her. She's another one. She's been like top in my care and every time she sees me, are you eating? Are you taking care of yourself? Just like incredible people. And have different services. 

Lisa: You go for massage therapy? 

Taylor: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Then I get cranial sacral, and then Iyla also gets cranial sacral, but 

Lisa: Yay. 

Taylor: Yeah. 

Lisa: Is that follow-up from the oral tethered, is that part of that care plan?

Taylor: So we were going prior to, just because Barbara, the lactation consultant, she recommended, 

Lisa: Mm-hmm.

Taylor: Oh, wait, I don't know, somebody recommended cranial sacral. So do you know Katinka?

Lisa: Yes. Yeah, she used to own Earth and Sky, yeah. Uhhuh. 

Taylor: Yep. So we see Katinka and Katinka recommended Barbara, my pediatrician recommended cranial sacral. So I went to Katinka, Katinka recommended Barbara. Barbara recommended Dr. Siegel, just like all of these incredible people, just incredible providers. 

Community of Support

And we wouldn't have gotten through all of this without just, I'm telling you, this birth world. And unless you get involved with like, you get yourself a doula or a midwife. Like you don't, I didn't know that this was even a thing, like this beautiful world that you guys have going.

It's just, it's incredible. And the people are just, you're loved and cared about by just everybody.

Lisa: Yeah. 

Taylor: And that's priceless to me.

Lisa: I'm thinking of creating an image with you and Iyla in the middle and then all the team, the different roles of your circle of support because it's so beautiful. I love it so much. 

Taylor: No, we are surviving, because of this, I couldn't have ever imagined it being like this. 

Taylor: And for that, I would do it again. Not now, not anytime soon, one day. 

Lisa: Sure. And I'll just, I would love to clarify, point out for most people, everyone's experiences are different, but you're, I think you said you're right around the four month mark. For most parents, we find that as we exit that fourth trimester, the first three-ish months, that we start to feel like we're coming out of the clouds a little bit, and so it sounds like that's what you were sharing has been your experience, at least to some extent. 

Taylor: Thankfully. Cause it felt like it never was going to end. Postpartum, it's crazy, especially with the hormones and then you have this baby and whether you have a traumatic birth or not, birth is traumatic. 

Lisa: It's physically traumatic for sure. 

Taylor: Exactly. And you're doing this massive thing of birthing a child, regardless of how you choose to do so. And you have to take care of that child and you have to remember to take care of you.

Lisa: Absolutely. Yeah. 

Taylor: So yeah.

Lisa: I wish listeners could see baby Iyla. I love it.

Taylor: This face, I know. 

Lisa: Looking up at the ceiling kinda, it looked like maybe yawning.

Taylor: Yeah. 

Lisa: Super cute. 

Taylor: Yeah. 

Lisa: Thank you so much for taking the time to share this beautiful birth story. I just can't wait to share it with listeners and again, sending you tons of Hope to get to see you in person at some point. And maybe snuggle your little one. 

Taylor: We're both in Astoria. 

Lisa: I know, you're a neighbor. Chana and I were talking about connecting mutual clients, someone who's just one block over from where I live, with you, with an eye towards support and friendship. So we'll have to- 

Taylor: She was telling me she's got other Astoria people. I'm like, well, you can give them my number. And obviously, because of HIPAA and whatnot, give everybody’s number. 

Lisa: Yeah.

Taylor: Postpartum can be lonely. but I've been blessed. This world has truly opened my eyes to bigger and better things. things 

Lisa: Yay. 

Taylor: So, but thank you so much for having me.

Lisa: Thank you much Taylor, have a good one.

Taylor: All right, you too. Bye.